Paula Abdul used to poke fun — literally — at one of her fellow American Idol judges.

Abdul reflected on butting heads with Simon Cowell on the singing competition series in a 2023 clip from The Jennifer Hudson Show, reposted on the show’s YouTube channel on Wednesday, August 13. “You were the softness of it all that kept us — at least I like to think — grounded,” Hudson noted, to which Abdul replied, “Someone had to be. It wasn’t gonna be the guy to the left of me.”

Host Jennifer Hudson noted that Cowell “wasn’t too nice” during the first few seasons of American Idol, after which Abdul quipped, “Welcome to my world for a decade.” When asked if Cowell was as tough on her as he was on contestants, Abdul revealed that she used to get back at Cowell with her wardrobe choices.

“​​I’d have spikes on my heels so I could kick him underneath the table,” she shared.

Abdul and Cowell were two of American Idol’s original judges alongside Randy Jackson. The series premiered on Fox in 2002 before moving to ABC in 2018. Abdul served as a judge through the show’s eighth season in 2009.

Abdul went on to credit Cowell becoming a father to helping his behavior “mellow” out in recent years. Cowell welcomed his son, Eric, with his partner, Lauren Silverman, in 2014. He is also stepfather to her son, Adam, whom she welcomed during a previous relationship.

“He’s different. Not that different, though,” Abdul joked. “He’s snarky as always. … He still makes jokes every time I see him. He goes, ‘Come here, Paula! Come here!’ Like how I would say to my Chihuahua.”

Hudson, for her part, competed on the show’s third season in 2004, ultimately coming in seventh place. Her shocking elimination is something Abdul said people have continued to ask her about.

“When you were eliminated, it was like the whole world was pissed,” Abdul stated. “People still talk to me about, ‘God, that night that Jennifer Hudson was eliminated.’ I go, ‘I know.’ And I remember interviewing you afterwards, when I was on Entertainment Tonight, and I said to you, ‘You know, I have the feeling some amazing things are gonna happen to you.’ Do you remember, I said, ‘Sometimes the people that need to win, win. And the people that don’t need to win end up winning big time.’ And you did.”

Abdul also confirmed a story that a psychic previously predicted that she would star on American Idol. “This was three years before American Idol even started. And she proceeded to tell me that I’m going to be doing a television show, like a talent show. And I was like, ‘What?’” she explained. “I mean, my only reference had been Star Search from decades ago. I’m like, ‘I’m not doing that.’ She goes, ‘Honey, you willed it to happen. It’s happening. You’re doing it.’”

According to Abdul, the psychic told her she would be joined on the show by someone from across the pond who would be a “thorn” in her side (Cowell) and someone she already knew whose name began with the letter R (Jackson).

“She said it was gonna be the biggest show, break records on television, and I paid no attention to it. I really didn’t,” Abdul added. “And it was almost three years to date when I was called into Fox.”