Opie Taylor is the quintessential good kid: as the son of Sheriff Andy Taylor on The Andy Griffith Show, Opie listens to his dad, does his best to follow the rules, and embodies the youthful innocence of a kid growing up in rural America. But he wasn’t always like that, Ron Howard, who portrayed the loveable scamp, told Vulture. And even after the show locked in its iconic characters, critics weren’t always ready with praise.

“Many years” after the show ended, Howard said in the new interview,  “when we were doing a Return to Mayberry TV movie or reunion special or something, Andy told me that my dad had come to him very early on in the show and said, ‘You’re writing Opie the way most sitcom kids are written. They’re wise****s and smarter than the dad.’”