Steve Madden‘s ascent has been immortalized in pop culture — see: Martin Scorsese’s Oscar-winning film “The Wolf of Wall Street” — but the footwear mogul doesn’t think there was anything “romantic” about his career and success, including his time in prison.

Madden debunked that myth during a new interview, while reflecting on “the ups and downs” of his career, from the success to his two-and-a-half-year stint in prison for charges on securities fraud and money laundering. He pled guilty. When asked which aspect of his life story or business he doesn’t “actually think is romantic,” by “The Cutting Room Floor” host Recho Omondi, Madden reflected on his time behind bars.

“People think my life is interesting because of prison, because of my success,” he shared. “I started a company with one shoe and now its a multibillion-dollar company. That would probably be the answer.”

In actuality, Madden said prison “was as awful as you can imagine.” “You’re away from your loved ones. The food is awful and you sleep on cots with very little mattresses and you live with other men, treated like shit,” he recalled. “No medicine. That’s why we pound it out. We don’t shake hands. I made a lot of friends — I have some of them working for me.”

While in prison, Madden said he thought frequently about what he would do differently upon being released. “I’m going to get out, I’m going to read 100 books,” he recalled thinking. “I’m really going to appreciate what I have. Human beings, we have a thing where we take s–t for granted. And it goes away when you go to prison and it lasts for about a week, and you’re like, ‘Where’s my f—–g car?’ You’re back on your bullshit.”

Back in 2019, Madden spoke about the wake-up call of being released from prison. “When I got out of prison, it was a moment with a lot of energy and a whole lot of grit. It took the company to another level,” he said, on the red carpet at the 2019 FN Achievement Awards where he was being inducted into the Hall of Fame.

At the time, he also spoke about how much “fun” he was having with his brand, which was then gearing up to celebrate its 30th anniversary. “I’m having more fun now, actually,” he said, adding, “I feel physically, mentally and spiritually in the best shape of my life. It’s the best I’ve ever felt.”

The brand, which began in 1990, when Madden began selling shoes out of his car with an $1,100 investment, took off quickly, but the designer told FN he had a lot of luck.

“Yes, I was hard working and talented, but I was a lucky guy. And it may not have been enough if I didn’t have luck,” he said.

Madden also offered a peek behind the curtain at his success in his latest interview, sharing, “The ups and downs, the disappointments, people being left behind — not going along for the entrepreneurial ride — it was hard work. It wasn’t romantic. It was showing up. All that corny s–t. Keep going. Do the next thing. And exposure to opportunity. I think I’m average intelligence. I think most people I meet are just as smart as me. Maybe smarter. But the ability to recognize that the luck window has just opened and to go full blast jumping through that window and exploit an opportunity — that’s what makes people successful. Because, you know, a lot of success is luck. When I say luck it’s not like you can be dopey. But sometimes you get a bounce on the ball: an opportunity comes your way.”