For the past decade, Maren Morris has been one of the most recognizable names in country music — with award-winning albums, a really striking voice and presence and some of the best and biggest singles the genre has produced in recent years. And over that time, she’s also made high-profile forays into the top 40 world, with crossover hits and collabs that expanded her reach and introduced her to new audiences. But as she has since distanced herself from the Nashville machine and is now attempting something of a full pop reinvention, it’s a particularly interesting time to ask: Did Maren Morris ever make the full jump to pop stardom?

On this week’s episode of the Greatest Pop Stars podcast, host Andrew Unterberger is joined by the writer Marissa Moss — of the acclaimed Her Country: How the Women of Country Music Became the Success They Were Never Supposed to Be book (in which Morris’ career made for one of the core story focuses), as well as the fantastic Don’t Rock the Inbox country newsletter — to brace this question.

Along the way, we relive the major moments in Morris’ career, from becoming a late-developing but quickly phenomenal country star in the mid-’10s, to reaching a peak crossover moment in the late decade with the massive hits “The Middle” and “The Bones,” to ultimately falling out with the country industry (for typically BS reasons) and deciding to largely leave that world behind. And we also share our feelings about her brand-new, pop-focused album Dreamsicle, and whether Maren 2.0 will be able to find the same kind of audience that all-too-briefly made her one of Nashville’s biggest stars.